Subaru is running a series of ads trying to burnish their reputation for reliability, which they desperately need to do. They suggest in their ads that driving a car 300,000 miles is not that unusual. But most cars will see the wreckers long before that happens.
How long should you keep a car? And will you get astounding miles out of your car before you junk it? These are hard questions to answer, but in general, expecting a car to go 300,000 miles is not really realistic.
Cars do last a lot longer than they used to, that is true. Part of this is improved technology, part is the increased cost of a car that makes keeping it longer essential to recover the costs. But a big part of it is, people simply drive a lot more these days.
Average mileage driving by most Americans today is about 15,000 miles a year - which is why these lease deals with 10,000 miles a year allotted are such a bad bargain. Historically, Americans drove about 12,000 miles a year in the 1960's and 70's, but it has increased over time. People are commuting longer distances from outlying suburbs. In addition, modern suburbs are laid out so that you have to drive from your house to the store, to school, to friend's houses, to, well, to just about anything. You literally cannot live without a car in America, unless you live in Manhattan.
So people drive more. A 10-year-old car now has an average of 150,000 miles on it - almost double what we expected only a few decades back. But some folks drive a whole lot more - like 20,000 or 30,000 miles a year. These "high milers" are the ones that put 300,000 miles on a car in short order. And these are generally the cars you hear about when someone mentions that they got astounding service life out of a car.
When I lived in Washington, DC, there were people who would commute to the District from Pennsylvania or West Virginia. If you are not from the area, let me tell you, that is a long way to commute - 50, 75, 100 miles or more - each way. They get up at 5 in the morning and drive 2 hours to work and repeat the process on the way home. Why they do this is the subject of another post. But suffice it to say they are making a very poor economic choice with both their time and money.
But even lesser commutes can "rack up" mileage quickly. So it is not hard to add miles in a hurry - and often this is the least amount of wear per mile on a car. Long highway drives put a lot less strain on a car than stop-and-go short city trips. So if you live "close in" and commute 5 miles to work, it is actually more wear than the fellow driving 20 miles in the country to work. He never sees a stoplight. Your car never warms up.
The image above is of a speedometer on a 93 Subaru with 386,000 miles. Sounds impressive, until you realize that they are driving a staggering 22,000 miles a year. Many other 300,000 mile stories are about the same - large amounts of miles driven annually, not necessarily a car that lasts 25 years or more.
You don't hear many stories about 1980 Subarus with 300,000 miles on them (a paltry 10,000 miles a year!) as most of those cars rusted out long ago and went to the junkyard. Even Subarus from the mid to late 1980's or early 1990's are hard to come by. Most of these "300,000 mile" cars are later models which were driven a LOT by their owners.
You want to get high mileage out of your car? Just spend your whole life driving it! Rack up the miles quickly, and it will go a long way.
On BMW websites, you see the same thing. People bragging that they put 300,000 miles on a 10-year-old car. Very impressive, until you realize that they are driving 30,000 miles a year, and thus most of their driving is highway mileage. A car traveling at constant speed on the Interstate uses no brakes, little fuel, and generates little horsepower (about 10-20HP will keep most cars going 65 mph on a highway). Even things like the car door don't get much more wear on long trips - as opposed to short stop-and-go trips in the city.
You want to wear out a car? Deliver Pizzas. In one night, you will use the starter motor more than most people do in a month - and ditto for the car door, the shifter, the brakes, etc. Lots of short trips, stop and go traffic, and starting and shutting off the car, acceleration (max HP) and deceleration (max braking). Not many miles, but lots and lots of wear.
So mileage alone is hardly an indicia of longevity of a car. How it is driven - and where - make a big difference. Ten miles of big-city potholes will do more damage to a suspension than driving across the entire State of Wyoming.
AGE also determines the life of a car. Many items on a car simply dry up, crack, and break with age. Interiors will fade, paint will peel, rubber parts dry up, and even oxygen sensors go south, just from age alone - regardless of mileage. Go to any retirement community in Florida and see how a 10-year-old Buick looks after sitting in the sun for 10 years, even if granny drove it only 30,000 miles. It is pretty much trashed.
And when a car ages, it becomes worth less and less, until it is worthless. Most of those 300,000 mile Subarus are going to the junkyard shortly, only because they aren't worth much, and even putting a new clutch into one will exceed the market value. Unless some nut wants to make a talisman out of a car and throw money at it, it won't be long for the world.
And there's the rub. ANY CAR can be made to go as far as you want it to, if you are willing to throw money at it. So long as you want to spend, the car can keep running. And some folks will throw good money after bad, keeping an older car alive, when they should just pull the plug and move on.
So how far will your car go before you junk it? It is an interesting question. Most of us sell cars long before they "wear out" simply for style or status reasons. But assuming you want to extract the most economy out of a car, the average American probably can expect to get 150,000 to 200,000 miles out of any car, with average care and average use. Beyond that, owning the car is not usually cost-effective, unless you are a high-mileage driver (20-30K per year).
For example, if you drive the average of 15,000 miles a year and drive in combined city and country driving, in ten years, you'll rack up 150,000 miles on the car. At that point, it may need a lot of work - new struts, shocks, oxygen sensors, ball joints, tie rods, timing belt, radiator, alternator - just to name a few things. These parts typically fail (or are slated to be replaced) after the 100,000 mile mark.
And at that point, most $20,000 cars are worth maybe $5000 or less, depending upon condition. (A good rule of thumb for mechanical equipment is that it depreciates to half its value every 5 years, so a $20K car is worth maybe $5K after 10 years). At that stage in the game, any major repair, like an engine or transmission spells doom for the car, as the repair cost is nearly equal to (or exceeds) the book value. You are better off fishing further upstream at that point, rather than trying to join the fabled 300,000 mile club.
Subaru's 300,000 mile ad campaign might eventually backfire on them, if they make it seem like their cars are guaranteed to go that far. It really is a cheap sort of trick, really, as you can pick ANY make or model car and find high-mileage driving owners who have managed to put 300,000 miles on the clock without too much difficulty. It is no real indicia of the longevity of the brand or an expectation that other owners should have.
My neighbor has a 1985 Chevy S-10 Blazer (remember those?) with 300,000 miles on the clock. This car accumulated a lot of miles early in its life, and then "retired" in its later years to a lower mileage existence. He rarely drives it, and it does break down with increasing frequency. Recently, he spend $750 repairing it, which is probably more than the book value. His logic was "well, for $750, I can't buy another car!" But of course, for the $750 repair cost plus the $750 the car might be worth, he could buy a secondhand Toyota for $1500. And this is presuming another repair isn't right down the road.
In contrast, take my 1995 Ford F-150, which has "only" 130,000 miles on it or about an average of 8600 miles a year. That's low average mileage, and most of it was highway mileage - towing a heavy trailer. But regardless, the truck is worth maybe $2500 to $3500 on a good day, and has all original engine, transmission, suspension, and other driveline parts. While it still runs OK, it probably needs a new head gasket soon, which could cost several hundred dollars to replace - or perhaps even a new engine, which could cost a few thousand.
Either way, any repair cost nearly exceeds the book value of the vehicle. And even though it was garage kept, the dashboard is starting to crack and the paint is showing the telltale signs of early clearcoat failure, and the seats are a little saggy and stained and the carpet has taken on a dirty hue and it is starting to get a little "old car smell". I have kept it for the last 5 years to tool around in and do chores. But now that I am moving South, do I need to keep it when it won't fit in the garage down there? At $2500 resale, it is a trivial asset at this point. Holding on to it would only mean making the painful decision down the road to spend thousands more on repairs. Better off to sell it for what you can get for it, and move on. (And again, note that this $20,000 truck was worth about $10,000 after five years, $5000 after ten years, and now $2500 after fifteen - the depreciation curve is pretty consistent for most machinery).
Note also that once a car is 15 years old or more, the value drops to nearly nothing - regardless of mileage. A low mileage example may be worth "twice as much" as a high mileage example, but two times nothing is still nothing.
Eventually, you reach a point in the Weibull Curve, where repair costs start to escalate rapidly, and the cost of maintaining the vehicle could exceed the cost of replacing it with a newer used one - or even a brand new car. Once a car starts to need $500 a month in repairs - or thousands of dollars in overhauls - it is probably time to call it quits. If you can sell the car and get good money for it before this point is reached, that is probably even a better alternative.


19 comments:
A reader asks: "Should I buy a car with 300,000 miles on it?"
Answer: Probably not, unless they basically give it to you.
The problem is twofold. First, even if the previous owner spend tens of thousands of dollars rebuilding the car from the ground up, chances are, it isn't worth anything in terms of book value.
So even if such a car was "reliable" the market value is nothing, and if you pay very much for it, you are immediately that much poorer.
Second, chances are that even if the car was well cared for, with all service records, etc., it will not be a very reliable car. At this age, if it is on the original engine and transmission, these may wear out, soon. Even if on the second engine and transmission (or rebuild) they may wear out, soon.
So once a major repair is needed, the cost of repair will easily exceed the resale value, and you end up throwing money at the car, spending more than you would have just buying a newer car.
If you can buy such a car for nearly nothing, and just drive it until it dies, then maybe you might come out ahead. But don't bother fixing it.
Things wear out. Over time, engine parts wear. Even with frequent oil changes with synthetic oils, rings and cylinder walls wear out. Oil pumps go south. Timing chains stretch. Valves burn. Stuff happens. And when these basic parts in the engine and transmission break, well, the car is toast. It ain't like doing a simple brake job or something.
So my general advice is - fish further upstream, unless the car is basically given to you.
I had a friend in Maryland who had an older 7-series BMW that had 300,000 miles on it. He was asking $5000 for it, with no takers. Not surprisingly, no one wanted to buy such a potential nightmare, where the parts cost was so very, very high, and the number of gadgets and toys that could break were many. I think he ended up donating the car to charity for a tax write-off.
And it goes without saying that unless you are handy with tools and have your own shop space to work in (and tools to work with) that owning a 300,000 mile car is a recipe for disaster.
Save the "handyman's specials" for the handyman.
Fish further upstream.
It also depends on the type of car you have. I have a 1995 Honda Accord with 210,000 and a 2000 subaru legacy wagon with 203,000. Both were bought new (subaru by me, honda by parents, they were going to trade it at 129,000). The subaru has needed head gaskets twice (once free warranty), CV boots, exhaust (bought from amazon.com for cheap), brake rotors, an ignition switch, and main wiring harness. There is a local shop that is honest and relatively inexpensive that works on Subarus only and I can do most things. It had a strange engine code issue the dealer couldn't fix and the Subaru shop finally did, wasn't that expensive, $150 main wiring harness. I have kept the subaru because it is unstoppable in the snow and I hunt and ski and try to find an AWD wagon anymore for a reasonable price (I like cars, I don't much like trucks). But it doesn't burn oil and most is original. Also, people have hit it three times in the last two years and I was able to either leave the dents or make cheap repairs. I actually made more off this than the car is worth. Twice I wasn't even in the car, it was in a parking lot. The other time, I could have been seriously hurt so I hope this doesn't continue, if no one is hurt the car could still be totaled, game over.
The Honda is a made in japan accord LX and has only needed brakes a couple times, CV joints, an ignition switch, and a muffler. And that's it. It doesn't burn oil, I change the oil every 3,000-4,000 with synthetic Walmart brand and pure one filters I get on sale. (same with Subaru). The Honda didn't need bake brakes until 160,000 miles. I can do brakes myself so it is cheap. Anyway, I never go to the dealer unless I have to do so, but they said they have one customer with a 1994 accord with 525,000. Those cars really were better made than almost anything else in the 90s. I keep cars until they need little repairs all the time or a big overwhelming repair. The clear coat still looks a mile deep and I live in the rust belt. The car was in NC though until 2006, but it seems higher quality than most cars, especially of that era. I see lots of them around, mine doesn't have the rust because of the NC thing and also when it warms up at all in the winter, I run out and rinse the underside of each car, the wheel wells and lip around the wheel wells, etc.
Great site by the way, you need a section on convincing the wife and kids why being frugal is a good idea. And if your wife isn't very frugal, good luck.
Thanks for your comments.
As I noted in the posting, 200,000 miles is the new 100,000 miles. And it is no surprise that you can get 200,000 miles out of a Honda or Toyota - or even a Subaru.
But getting to the magic 300,000 miles is a lot harder. Odd things start wearing out - like door hinges and seats (usually these collapse over time). Headliners collapse. Dashboards crack. Even seatbelts wear through (I've done it!). And a lot of those trim bits are difficult and expensive to repair. And one tires of riding around in a car with split-open or collapsed seats, floppy headliners, etc.
Eventually, the Weibull curve kicks in - some repair exceeds the cost of the car, or a large number of smaller repairs will "wear down" the owner over time.
And yes, as with any other type of Bell-curve distribution, there will be a very few vehicles which will be junked early and a very few vehicles which will go for hundreds of thousands of miles.
And that is why I think the Subaru ads are deceiving - you can find a Chevy Citation with 300,000 miles on it, if you look hard enough. But that does not mean all of them go that far. Subaru is suggesting this is a common occurrence, when it is still a fairly rare one.
And also it IS possible to make a car last forever, if the owner is willing to throw money at it forever - cars can be rebuilt, from the ground up, piece by piece.
I've done it. And it isn't cost-effective. Not only are parts expensive, but after a decade or so, it is hard to get good replacement parts that last as long as OEM parts, so you end up doing the same repairs over and over again.
There is a "sweet spot" in car ownership where there are few repairs, depreciation is limited, and the reliability is high. This is the most cost-effective part of the ownership cycle.
Brand new cars are often less reliable (needing warranty work) and have high depreciation.
Very old cars have high repairs and low reliability, but no depreciation.
Eventually, however, it reaches the point where even buying a new set of tires for a car is equal to the book value of a car.
As for the wife, it is true that a lot of relationships devolve into a "race to the bottom" with each spouse trying to outspend the other. Most end in divorce and poverty.
Working out a financial plan with a spouse is not easy - it is a tough battle, but a battle worth winning. Good luck.
My 1991 Honda Accord LX (4 cylinder 2.2 liter 5 speed) hit 300000 miles last month. Has the original clutch, original engine, original transmission, even original CV axles. Muffler broke last year, bought an OEM replacement for $30. Point: driving the car saved me at least $3000 last year over driving my much newer 2001 Explorer (gas and insurance).
I read your post, you have the basic facts in consideration. But, in a lot of situations, it is cost effective to keep on driving that old beater. First, knowledge is money. You know what your car needs; that $1500 Toyota might need a timing belt replacement for $400 in parts and $200 in service.
I would argue that there is no blanket statement. Usually, however, unless the primary parts (engine and transmission) blow, you're always better off replacing and repairing.
I like your article. I write stuff like this too; that's how I found it: http://factoidz.com/how-to-live-life-in-the-margins/
Thanks for your comment.
As an Engineer, I realize that mechanical and electrical systems follow a distribution curve, usually called a "Bell Curve" due to its shape.
So for any given type of device, there will always be a few that fail early, the majority that fail at the end of the design life, and the rare few that last seemingly forever.
It is like those light bulbs you read about that stay lit for 80 years. That does not mean it is normal to expect a light bulb to last 80 years.
The problem with a 300,000 mile car like yours is that its resale value is essentially zero. No one would want to buy a 300,000 mile car on its original clutch - or at least not pay much for it - a few hundred, maybe a thousand at best.
This means that even a simple repair will exceed the resale value, which generally means it is time to junk it. Even a set of tires would exceed the resale value.
And unfortunately, the Weibull curve (see my posting on that) also kicks in. So what happens to cars like this is that someone spends $500 to $1000 putting in a new clutch, only to have something else break in short order.
Before long, you can throw thousands at such a car. It can be a financial nightmare.
So, realistically, most folks won't see the 300,000 mile mark. And if you do, the end is nigh. Don't bother spending much fixing such a car, unless it is a collector's item....
Good Luck!
And if you want a collector's item, chances are, there is a lower-mileage version of that car somewhere else for not a lot more money.
Once a car reaches 300,000 miles, the resale value is only a thousand or two at most, even for a Mercedes or a BMW.
So ANY repair exceeds the value of the car - even a set of tires.
At that point, you drive it until it dies - or it gets into an accident.
This is what happened to a friend of mine with a 275,000 mile Mercedes Wagon. A small collision, $5,000 in damage (repairing with used parts). Book value? $4000.
Worth fixing? Not really. You could buy a 150,000 mile example for about $6000, which would be a better idea.
Fish...Further....Upstream!
Even though I am an engineer I fell for the "dream" of a car that lasts forever. It seems right now that car is any Toyota. So based upon advice of certain friends where I work I bought a used Toyota Camry with 71,000 miles. everybody said wow that is going to last forever! Well just 16000 miles later we had a broken connecting rod launch out of the oil pan. Car dead. Illusion shattered.
I am not here to bash Toyota specifically but I have thought about this for a couple of years now. Toyota sells most of their cars in the south and west. Those environments alone will make a car last longer. I live in Michigan and that car I bought was 10-years old and was owned by an old man. I did not do my home work and I paid for it.
Your comments are true.
That is unusual for a Toyota to break like that. It may have been abused by a previous owner (lack of oil changes) or was stolen and over-revved by teenagers.
But a Toyota generally should go 150,000 miles with regular oil changes. Most do.
There was a story behind your car. I wonder what it was....
Is buying a 2002 ford chevrolet malibu with about 150,000 - 200,000 for $800 a bad deal?
If you find a Ford Chevrolet Malibu, that is a good deal as it is a collectors item. They didn't make many of those Ford Chevrolets.
All kidding aside, check the book value (KBB, Edmunds, NADA guides). I suspect that is pretty close to what it is worth.
Price depends on condition. 150K is about average for a 10-year-old car.
$800 is about $600 over scrap value. If the car was reasonably cared for, you could drive it until it dies, maybe get a year or so out of it, without spending any money on it, all for less than one car payment on a new car.
I would not spend much money trying to fix it, though. Just drive it. Don't throw money at an $800 car.
A reader writes:
I REALLY think it depends on the car. I have a 1996 Honda Civic with very close to 300k miles. Now, you are indeed correct about the resale value, but here is the deal-i don't plan to sell it until it dies, so i don't care. It has the original engine, transmission, and clutch. I have had to put about $400 into it a year. A new car payment is $250-$300 a month! And let's talk about truat/reliability. About once a year (at least twice every 30 months), i go on a cross-continental drive. In '06 to the Yukon, in '07 to Florida. No joke, i put at least 4000 miles on my car during these trips and that's a low estimate. I have never had any reservations about taking the Honda on these ventures, and it hasn't let me down in Kansas somewhere.
The car uses no oil (i change it with synthetic) and i have the peace of mind of knowing where it has been.
I do agree, i wouldn't buy a used car with 300,000 miles (or even 200,000-to be honest, i'd hesitate at a used car at 100,000), but if you know your car and trust it, it can be A LOT cheaper than buying a new car just because a certain mileage was hit.
Trust me, if i had to constantly throw money at it, or if i thought the car may not get me to where i need to go, i'd retire it, but as it is, why should i?
Also, as cars get heavier with safety features and the like, gas mileage decreases (i get about 38 MPG, and no non-hybrid Honda matches that now), so that is another expense i'd have to pay if i got rid of my Honda.
What you said about the wear of cars over time makes sense too-but if you take care of your car by washing it, maybe a coat of wax annually, removing salt and other rust-friendly road grits, you can keep the exterior reasonably in good shape. The interior i think spoils more by hard usage than just weathering and age
Those are all good points, but I suspect your car is not long for this world. How many cars do you see with 400,000 or 500,000 miles on them? Not many. And not many make it to even 300,000 miles. You are very near the end game, I suspect.
One major break - and I'm guessing either an overheat/head warp, or a transmission/CV joint problem and she's ready for the wreckers. Not worth spending $1000 in repairs on.
At 300,000 miles for a 1996, that works out to 18,750 miles a year, about 20% above the national average. Cars that go high miles are not OLD cars, but cars driven more than average in their lifetimes. Many of these "300,000 miles" stories are from people with cars that were driven 30,000 miles a year, which is a staggering number.
I suspect that very shortly, you'll get tired of falling headliners, torn seats, worn out and broken stuff. And then a major repair will come and that will be that. No car lasts forever, and eventually, the Weibull curve kicks in - and all mechanical systems are subject to this - nothing is immune, not even a Honda.
The point of the posting is that when a car gets old, it gets OLD, regardless of the mileage. Many of these high-miler stories neglect to mention that the car was driven over average miles in its lifetime.
A similar car, with "only" 150,000 to 200,000 miles might be equally as worn out - and worth equally as little - and be scrapped when the repair costs exceed resale value (at that point, it makes sense to not repair, but to spend the money on a slightly newer car).
Some cars do go to high miles - these are "outliers" not average. Some car companies are raising expectations that this is the new norm.
I disagree. I think Subaru, for example, is raising unrealistic expectations.
Good Luck!
Ok i was just wondering beacuase its my first car that im buying & its only for work & a 2 hour drive to new york on some weekends you think it will hold out for 1 year & a half if not maybe a little more
Check the book values online using kbb.com, edmunds.com (TMV pricing) and NADAguides.com
Most older cars with high mileage are worth little - maybe a few hundred dollars.
That means it ain't worth putting more than the book value into it, in repairs.
Even a new set of tires could be more than the car is worth.
I drove a lot of junkers in my day, and we used to joke that putting a full tank of gas into them would double their value.
Today, this is not so much a joke!
Well I will be happy to tell you that my 1998 Toyota Camry turned 300,000 miles on my birthday (02/22/2012).
Which proves my point. You are driving about 22,000 miles a year - more than 50% higher than the national average.
Getting a 14 year old car to go 300,000 miles is no big deal. Getting a 1989 Camry to do this, is.
Again, if you want to put 300,000 miles on a car, just drive a lot, every year. But that means driving a lot, every year. At an average speed of 30 mph, that means you are spending over 700 hours, or 30 days a year in your car.
This is an accomplishment? Or just a waste of time? You should be asking yourself why you are driving all over the place. Talk about spinning your wheels!
However, I suspect your car is near the end of its life.
Why? Because the book value on the car is about $1200 at this point. Any repair exceeding this amount, well, is not worth doing.
New struts? New rack and pinion? Transaxle issues? Engine overheats? Any of these will send it to the junkyard.
Yes, it is possible to get 300,000 miles out of a car - but most people, who drive only 12,000 to 15,000 miles a year, will never see this number, as the car will depreciate to the point where it isn't worth fixing before then.
Only people who (foolishly) spend a large chunk of their life driving, will see this. And that really isn't living, is it?
Will my three 95-96 Camrys go 300000? They have 200000 to 240000 right now. Probably will.
Maybe. The problem is, they are reaching that age when weird stuff starts to happen.
For example, if you live in a State with emissions inspection, often this is what kills off an older car - getting them to pass is more costly than the car is worth.
Weird electrical problems are another issue. Worn struts and suspension components can cost more to replace than the car is worth.
You don't see many Japanese cars much older than the one you have. I saw a 1992 Camry the other day - a rare site (I had an 1988, the same model). You just don't see those around anymore. Remember the "mouse motor" seatbelts? Before they had airbags?
Yet, at one time, these cars were as common as dirt - one of the most popular cars sold in the USA!
Where did they all go? To the junkyard - long before they hit 300,000 miles.
That last 60,000 to 100,000 miles will be hard. You make it sound like a cake-walk, but bear in mind that 100,000 miles on that one car is half again as far as it has gone already. That is not a cake-walk, but four times around the Earth.
The book value on these cars is like $1500 at best. If one blows a tranny, or even a CV joint, think hard before you throw money at it.
Again, the nightmare scenario is when someone plows $3000 or more into an older car like that, thinking, "Hey, it might not be worth it, but it has been a good car for me, so why not?"
The next month, something else goes wrong, and that $3000 suddenly seems like a poor choice - you could have bought a newer, lower mileage car for that.
(and yes, that happened to a friend of mine, who spend $3000 putting a new head on his 240,0000 mile BMW, only to have the tranny blow up the next month. Even BMWs aren't worth squat at 240,000 miles.
The WEIBULL CURVE (see my posting on this) kicks in, on cars, at about the age yours is at. Things just wear out, all at once, and they ain't worth fixing, because the cost of repairs exceeds the book value.
It is OK to accept that and just move on. Trying to make a talisman out of an old clapped-out car is not cost-effective.
So, I suspect you "Probably Won't" see 300,000 miles on those cars. At the rate you are driving, you will have to keep one for four more years, and the other for six. At that point, their resale value will be close to the scrap value. ANY repair - even a new set of tires - at that point, would not be cost-effective.
This blog is about how to live BETTER with LESS. Tossing money away to prove a point or get your name on the Subaru 300,000 mile website is not logical, but emotional. But Subaru drivers think that way (which is why they buy those gas-hog AWD nightmares to begin with. Illogical).
It is a good thing to keep a car a long time and drive the wheels off it, as you are doing. But to make the game WORK, you have to know when to QUIT. You can blow the whole thing, if you toss more than a few hundred bucks at these cars.
Drive them until they die. Then take the plates off and call the scrap yard.
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